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Re: DBM Status Update (Updated Feb 15, 19)

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:13 am
by MysticalOS
I guess it's been a while. Just not much to update. right now sort of playing schedule tag between myself, implant specialist, and lab tech that actually has to rebuild the bite. Being as rural as I am also hurts this, so I'm actually just kinda waiting to even get a new appointment to do some more fit ins and measurements of false teeth.

Things going well with DBM, recent updates have been awesome, definitely check those out! :)

Re: DBM Status Update (Updated March 27, 19)

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:01 pm
by MysticalOS
Sorry I have not posted in while. Truth of matter is, there has been nothing new to post since I've literally spent 2 months just waiting to get a new appointment.

I now have a new appointment finally for April 1st where I will finally get to spend an hour with both the dentist specialist and the prosthetic specialist to continue work on rebuilding bite and getting it right. It's been a long wait trying to get these two available at same time and there are a lack of other specialists in area being as rural as I am. Hopefully now, we can finally iron out the last details of remapping my mouth and getting everything just right so we can proceed to perm solutions down the line. I suspect it'll be something like this

1st: Spend an hour remapping and test fittings and such on April 1st
2nd: Some later appointment to go in to pickup a remade temp denture/plate to test these adjustments.
3rd: another appointment some 1-2 weeks after previous to give feedback on if there are still issues (overbite, underbite, bad midline, etc).

If everything is good at that point, would probably proceed to implants once an accurate bite is established. If all is not good, probably repeat above process for a 3rd time (cause this is 2nd time already, first time the temp plate had an overbite and major fit issues)

As I said previously, a LOT of this is do to not seeing specialist first, and getting a lot of teeth pulled BEFORE establishing an accurate imaging of my bite with natural teeth. if you ever need to get teeth pulled and plan to have implants or even just dentures, learn from my mistakes and SEE the specialist making them first, because you can save a LOT of time and heartache and money by having real teeth for them to model everything off of. They can replicate that easily. They can't replicate your bite if you show up with no teeth without tons of guessing and repeated trial and error.

Re: DBM Status Update (Updated April 2st, 19)

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:06 am
by MysticalOS
So, that april 1st appointment didn't happened. The assistant that was setting it all up was out today and when I called ahead of time to confirm, the ones there knew nothing about me. They then told me they'd call me back when they knew more and when the Lab tech I needed to see comes in. They did call back at some point to tell me tech is coming in later than they thought and still don't have an appointment for me and would call back again if they can get me in. They never did.

This is a tech that I literally spent last 2 and a half months waiting to see to help rework dentures in person to try and rebuild them to actually fit and bite correctly, and it didn't even happen. what I've learned is this one tech bounces between atlanta and savannah georgia and everywhere in between. Getting time with him is quite difficult.

I'm effectively back on a wait list for who knows how long til he's out again. EDIT: they got me a new opening with him Tuesday, April 9th. We'll see how that goes.

Meanwhile, my 6 month anniversary of having no teeth is on the April 5th and I'm beginning to stress about pushing deadlines for getting implants with healthy bone before I start to need additional medical procedures like a sinus lift and additional grafting to replace shapeshifting/bone loss. You see, when you don't have upper teeth below your sinus cavity, over a period of time the sinus cavity begins to drop. if this drop has happened they actually need to perform a sinus lift to move it back up, if you get implants. You also lose bone every month in your jaw that you do not massage this bone with teeth (or implant) through bone stimulation (chewing). A lot of this reabsorption occurs within first year. Every month could count (everyone is different, but a consensus of all implant specialists is the earlier you get implants done, the better).

So why can't we just do the implants now? Since we're rebuilding my teeth from scratch, no model what so ever, we need to finish rebuilding it and getting it correct before we start drilling and putting screws in.

So here I am, having made no progress 2 and a half months, and I'm feeling very discouraged and dismayed by whole thing. I realize a lot of this mess is from seeing an inexperienced dentist first and not a specialist who could have prevented much of this hardship, combined with being too rural and having too few specialists to work with that are so overbooked and hard to see. I do place most of blame on self for not doing enough initial research and not knowing better. It's been one of my hardest life lessons to date.

----------------------Skip catchup if you've followed along until now----------------------
I figure now is a good of time as any to post a full catchup so below I summarize last few months for those reading for first time.

For a good while, I was working on DBM for very little. Too little to afford proper health care or dental care. I knew I had untreated infections but there wasn't much I could do about them. As is, I was already borrowing money from one card to pay another type deal, amassing debt just trying to keep a roof and food for myself and mother.

I hit a breaking point about 6 and a half months ago and original status update/rant post went up. That post was never about trying to get money but to simply explain my situation and that there may be some changes to DBM. However, the community, in a very surprising manor, rallied up to get me support I needed to not only stress less about work on DBM but to even finally take care of my ignored health/dental issues.

I was so excited to finally take care of health that I literally just went to first oral surgeon qualified to extract infected teeth. About 2 weeks later, I was in there for extractions. What I found out at time though was it was more than just 3 I knew about that needed to come out. that he actually saw infection in about 12 of them, but recommended I pull at least 14 because the 2 next to infection had some damage as well. Then he got to talking about condition of other teeth and talked about how we could do a lot of expensive work to preserve them, but at end of day it was probably better and cheaper long term to just remove all of them (yes all 32) and getting a full implant/reconstruction option. The other teeth in mouth were infection free but not in great shape either do to my depression and sort of giving up on oral care when first issues came up few years ago. I was all about hearing options to save money so I was like "sure, remove everything, I have money now and won't later so if I can get stuff done now and save money, best option!" So on that day, all 32 teeth were pulled, for the low low price of $10,000 (On plus, the dental insurance I had literally picked up before going, while they didn't really pay much, they apparently negotiated that he was way out of fucking line and owed me a check for 4,500. So after some reimbursement, I was only out 5,500).

Needless to say, that wasn't a pleasant experience. After about 2 weeks of healing I go back and am like "ok what's next? when do we do implants" and he's like "oh I don't do that, you need to find someone else who specializes in that". Shocked about this, I actually go home and hit up internet. I actually look pretty hard to find that almost NO ONE had qualifications I needed except for literally one person within 2 hour search radius. I setup that appointment to see him and went from there.

What I learned when I saw specalist was utterly horrifying. First thing I'm told, I never should have had any teeth pulled until I had seen him (or another implant specialist) first because they needed my actual teeth to model my prosthetics off of, so they could get accurate information to replicate a bite that actually works well. not too big or small, comes together just right, etc. The second major screwup was that after all the extractions first dentist just sowed me up without doing any grafting. Some of extractions removing a LOT of bone and leaving little to work with for actual implant placement. the proper procedure would have been to graft the sockets at same time as extraction to promote far more rapid and full healing of bone to support implants. Without grafting, it's not a sure thing the sockets will fill fully with good bone either. I was actually told there was a chance even after waiting a few months I'd still not have enough recovered bone and would still need an ADDITIONAL surgery to add grafting. We'd simply have to wait and see.

Not much could be done to fix those screwups at this point. This specialist said he was still happy to work with me but that it'd be a much more painful process of trial and error because before we can do anything we need to recreate my bite from nothing. This meant creating a temp set of dentures that are more or less guesswork to try. However, we couldn't even do that until I had a few more weeks of healing from the extractions. I needed gums strong enough to support denture trial and error and mine were a real mess with a much longer healing time.

He saw me several times during my healing and we had to file down bone spurs MANY times during this time and of course took imprints off gums for the dentures that were sent to lab. It took like 2 months to get anything back from lab too. Lets talk about that a bit too. I'm very rural, there is really a lack of a lot of doctor or dentist specialist options, and only so many labs and techs. Appointments here always take forever to get and lab turn around time is even longer. There are too many patients and not enough doctors and techs basically. If I could win lottery, I'd move myself and mother the hell out of here. Sadly, we are stuck here.

So anyways, I finally go in excited to finally pick up these temp dentures at about 3 and a half months post extraction at this point. Put them in and immediately notice that they have a pretty substantial overbite. Furthermore, they are REALLY lose and took a metric fuckton of glue to get to hold. The second issue likely being that the gum casts were taken multiple weeks prior while I was still healing in addition to also having several bone spurs grow and get filed down in that period too. basically bone/gums in my mouth were constantly changing so the first cast we did was too inaccurate by time dentures came in.

Needless to say, he said take them home and still give them a try in for 2 weeks. I did try them, for about 3 days. They'd only stay in about 30 to 45 minute before the glue would start to fail do to poor fit. and I'm still talking a metric fuckton of glue too. I used half of a tube at one point and still couldn't get them to stay in for even an hour. On top of that. do to overbite and even height feeling too great, I couldn't keep my mouth closed, couldn't actually heat or drink or even talk with them in. So by day 3 I cleaned them real good and put them in a bag. I wasn't going to poison myself with zinc when you're not supposed to need/use that much glue for dentures that were clearly not fitting/working for me.

When I went back after 2 weeks, I explained all this and he agreed with me. They clearly didn't fit and needed to be remade. That's when he told me that he wanted a sit in appointment with lab tech and himself for a good hour to do as much adjusting and fine tuning as possible. This was 4 month mark at this point since extractions. It literally took 2 months to finally get that appointment, for April 1st.
----------------------End Backstory, all caught up to first segment----------------------

Re: DBM Status Update (Updated April 11th, 19)

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:41 am
by MysticalOS
Saw the lab tech and dental specialist April 9th and we went over all the issues with temp dentures and took fresh imprints as well as tons of imaging with current misfitting plates for tech to take back and do adjustments off of. The next appointment for tryin number 3 is May 2nd.

As for DBM update. Some classic prep continues as well as prep for the Crucible opening soon. expecting next week to be a very busy week, with focus on crucible coming first and when that's in a good place proceeding immediately to 8.2 ptr work.

I intend to stream more mod work soon as I want to try and up my engagement with community as well as hit that twitch grind to get more emote slots available for the DBM subs that sub through twitch, since they get less discord perks do to poorer integration.

Re: DBM Status Update (Updated April 11th, 19)

Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 4:24 pm
by MysticalOS
Had that tryin on may 2nd. It was actually much closer. Actual progress, but not quite right still. They scheduled another tryin for next week (although haven't given an exact date yet).

DBM side of things, work continues on 8.2 stuff. 8.1.5 and crucible should finally be setting down. Work now goes into dungeon and raid coming in 8.2. the dungeon is already completely pre coded but still needs actual testing and logging and updating with real data. Raid work has begun with one boss pre coded already. I've begun doing some of this on twitch to increase engagement, as well as celebrate another way users can help support DBM if they do not want to use patreon.

Re: DBM Status Update (Updated June 1st, 19)

Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:50 pm
by MysticalOS
That last dental tryin ended up being 3 weeks later not 1. So it was actually last week but forgot to post.

Further along, not quite right, so awaiting next try in date.

DBM progress with both 8.2 and Classic continue to proceed. I'd say 6/8 boss mods are in a very good position for launch, with only azshara and Zaqul needing more work since no one really saw the complete fight for either boss.

As for DBM support, it continues to decline, but still enough for me as solo developer. Any options of actually bringing in help are off the table, but I projected that months ago, which is why I never brought anyone on to begin with (would have been silly to bring someone on full time and lay them off 2-3 months later). Instead, I just commissioned a few short term tasks as needed. When hype dies down, so too, does the interest. But myself, I'm very stable for now. I'll continue to monitor though. I'm hoping at some point it levels off. I'm certainly in no position to be asking for anything. The goals will always be clearly visible on patreon, and the word about supporting DBM was spread. Now, I take whatever support people feel the project deserves. No more and no less :)

I continue to work hard to produce best possible mods for both Retail and Classic, as well as continue to look into ways to expand my outreach to all of you, such as my efforts to stream some of my work from time to time. Maybe one day, I will have good enough internet to actually stream more than just boring coding streams but actually engaging content like ptr raid testing and other stuff.

If you are interested in supporting DBM, you can learn all about how to support here:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=428#p1180

Re: DBM Status Update (Updated June 16th, 19)

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:17 pm
by MysticalOS
Not much to update. I continue to work with Dentist to get teeth/bite remapped but it's still a very slow process since there is literally a 3 week wait after every single adjustment. Living in country where everything has to be sent off is severely debilitating to process but things are still moving. It sounds like I might finally have an actually wearable plate in probably a couple months. Then after a month they want me to wear it to get a few more adjustments, be able to proceed to permanent implant solution. I'll just have to see how things go though. I've been eating soft foods only for 8 and a half months, what's a little longer :)

On the DBM front, Classic support at this point is just waiting on actual logs/data points for dungeons, as well as wowhead database updates (which means you can help dbm by running wowhead client for classic beta and helping build up their data).

As for 8.2 support on retail. That's about as good as it can be based on raid testing so far. 6/8 fights are pretty well complete but Harbringer and azshara are both incomplete do to fact no one has gotten far enough in either fight during testing to actually get all the data from them yet. That's out of my hands though. All I can do is wait on that front. This may be a situation where these mods will just have to ship incomplete on day 1 of raid and be fixed up as players get further on these fights than they did during testing.

As for future. It's going to continute being a juggle between retail and classic, but I'm doing as much as I can to simplify process as much as possible. I never did get to bring on a 2nd dev full time dev for this do to the rate of decline in patreon support, which never left me in a position I'd be comfortable enough bringing more paid help on, but I was able to get some volenteer help that's been invaluable in managing everything. The growth was more than I ever expected or could ask for, but the rate of decline has also been very rapid. Most of that support was short term for my health, which thankfully is now being taken care of, but the amount of LONG term support/investment into DBMs future was much smaller. I project even further decline before classic even ships. As such, I'll just do best I can with time management playing retail and classic at same time to deliver the best experience to both. This means I'll continue to be unable to return to any actual progression raiding myself. I'll need that extra time to to maintain "good enough" characters in both versions of game and hoping for groups that are willing to take me on a heroic run in retail or raid runs in classic even if I don't have time to to be committed full time raider in either game.

Basically between coding, and having to constantly work on two mains, I expect both of my characters will only be mediocre. I can do mechanics, I just can't afford the time to grind AP, farm dungeons, spend several nights a week wiping to progression, etc. I just need to make my 2 characters good enough to tag along and hope that people let me tag along once in a while. I don't need gear or mounts or anything. Just be invited to be there to collect data/test things. So I hope community can help with this with retail and classic.

if not though, I'll make do (I always do). I can still make mods as fast as logs appear on WarcraftLogs. As long as people can continue to make logs, I can make mods. If people send transcriptor logs, even better. Between those logs and plenty of twitch streams and discord feedback I'll still make great mods even for mythic. You can expect mods to continue to be good quality (BoD and crucible mods were done entirely from bench after all, I couldn't even find a group willing to bring me to crucible and still made good mods for it).

Re: DBM Status Update (Updated July 12th, 19)

Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:42 am
by MysticalOS
Still nothing to report on dental stuff. I'm still getting low priority in their busy schedule and getting no where with that. I've now been without teeth for 9 months now and actually noticing the jaw reshaping as a result of not having implants I should have had at least 3 months ago (if teeth are not replaced with implants within a decent time frame to keep jaw bone stimulated, the jaw senses there is nothing there and begins a process called reabsorption, where the jaw starts to actually shrink since body decides the bone is no longer needed for anything). Fortunately facial hair covers that up pretty well. It's a real shame being rural and stuck with whatever I can get around here. Having doctors either under qualified to do it or ones that are qualified not making my case a higher priority. I'm annoyed by this, but still better than where I was 9 months ago. Aesthetically displeasing is better than actually being unhealthy and in pain all the time. Whatever happens, I just take as the fate of the universe at this point.

As for DBM, 8.2 launched and DBM was the best mod for eternal place week one, especially for azshara. Alpha updates have been pretty regular too to refine mods even more and continue adding features and bug fixes.

Re: DBM Status Update (Updated August 22nd, 19)

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:10 pm
by MysticalOS
It's been a while.

Had an appointment on July 23rd, got the final adjustments to temp dentures completed. They finally feel/looked right so they were sent for final processing. He promised this time he'd try to get me in sooner than 1 month. Well, that didn't happen. I didn't get back in there until August 20th. When I got in, I found out there was a mistake at lab and instead of getting final processing by lab, they were sent back to dentist with nothing done. So I wanted another month for NOTHING.

As it stands, it's been 9 and a half months since I had teeth pulled, and i still don't have any new teeth in mouth.

On DBM front. Lots of work continues. Still doing some updates to live eternal palace, while also completely updated firelands mods for timewalking prep for upcoming retail content, while also having to redo EVERY MOD I made for classic wow because blizzard decided communicating with addon authors isn't worth their time and decided to change how combat log works in classic wow without giving any heads up. This forced me to have to redo everything in a rush to ensure the mods I had already completed still worked for classic launch. It also meant I had to sacrifice completing additional dungeon mods for launch because of time I lost with all the reworks.

TL/DR, it's been hella crazy busy on mod front and stressful on dental front do to a dentist who, although very qualified, is overbooked into oblivion to point that getting anything done takes entirely too long.

Re: DBM Status Update (Updated Sept 12th, 19)

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:17 pm
by MysticalOS
*in Tidus voice* "This is my story" Recap/history (skip spoiler if you've followed thread for last year)
► Show Spoiler


Ok, it is time for a new post/update. This post is about the travesty of the United States healthcare and dental system and how it's screwed me over repeatedly from getting help, and then when I finally did have the money to get help (thanks to all of you), it repeatedly screwed me over with dishonesty, price gouging, and low quality of care that resulted in (to no surprise) MUCH higher costs.

Since the last status update of this thread, the appointments continued to go down hill. I literally only got final bite dentures 2 weeks ago. After which, I was like "finally, lets take a final CT and get those implants done". SO he took that 3rd CT and I went to front desk to make an appointment to review CT and discuss next phase (implants) after 11 months of no teeth in my mouth. They told me earliest opening was 2 weeks later (this week). Of course when appointment time came (Tuesday, Sept 10th) and i call up only to find they forgot to book it (this is second time that's happened btw). Fortunately they were like "come in tomorrow". This was yesterday (Wed. Sept. 11th).

Well here is where things get REALLY bad. I went in and he showed me that CT to tell me I had SUPER aggressive reabsorption and amount of bone I have for implants is so bad, I won't even be able to get full implants on top or bottom. They'll have to be short molars on both ends. In addition, my bone had become so thin that normal size implants can't even be used and the implant systems we discussed that I wanted are off table, because the only implants that'll work are super thin specialized ones. But wait, there is more. In addition, he revealed my CT showed massive bone damage to sinus cavity caused by 3 very large sinus polyps. That before he could even do top implants, I needed to go to an ENT and get that taken care of. He made it sound pretty serious. I stopped him right there and said "this is my 3rd CT, you mean to tell me you didn't see that on the other 2". Wait for it, he DID see it on those but failed to tell me because and I quote "I hadn't come up with a treatment plan yet"...What? In the last 10 months I've been seeing this guy, he couldn't have bothered to tell me to go to an ENT and take care of this problem that needed taking care of months ago, while I waited months at a time for him to work on my temporary dentures?. Then he proceeds to tell me that because of my aggressive absorption we're short on time. That I need to see the ENT like yesterday AND get back to him asap to get these now partial more flimsy thin implants done while I can get anything done at all!

But wait, there is more. The cost for bottom implants were quoted at 31,000 dollars. A quote for top ones wasn't even drawn up yet since it depends on what ENT can do to fix sinus cavity first. I was told that the top implants would be at least as much as bottom ones though. He mentioned there is a good sinus specialist 4 hours away in Atlanta if I want the high end good work that would restore the bone structure damage, but it'll be extremely costly, or I can see local ENT to at very least deal with polyps and he'd work around it (back to part that I'd be missing teeth, on my expensive implants). So yay, now my now partial-implants would cost over 60 grand, not counting for whatever ENT is going to cost, and I have until January at latest to get this all done.

Then he walked out of room and left me with the money person, I explained all my grievance over all this. That literally everything I said fell on deaf ears and the very situation I wanted to avoid happened because if that office screwing me over on appointments and waiting too long, which allowed this level of reabsorption to happen in first place. I even aired my grievance about the fact the sinus issue should have been brought up MONTHS ago so it could be dealt with already. Then I addressed the fact that all the added cost is NOT my fault, considering I went in there with a plan to be done by 6 months BEFORE all these issues happened and it was not followed. She bumped the 31,000 down to 25,000 if I pay all cash up front, but would bend no further. Then, when I said I still can't afford it, she had audacity to say 'well you could always borrow the money". Then told me about how much that office cares about my health and doesn't want to see me leave without getting treatment.

Well that's exactly what happened, I left that office with no further appointments or treatment. I have a semi-loose denture that doesn't stay in without wads of glue that are barely usable, bone that's not only been ruined by one dentist but TWO through lying by omission since i know both doctors knew what they were doing but obviously didn't care enough to avoid these problems. Heck maybe even thought they'd get a bigger payday by doing this to me. So after everything I've been through and all the hope that I got from all of you, this screwed up and corrupt healthcare system lets these doctors do this to me and get away with it, and I may spend the rest of my life toothless and hopeless. As i said at beginning of all this, I don't expect to suddenly raise money to pay these doctors, because quite honestly, do they really deserve it? There is no nicer way to put it. They fucked me. So this is a letter to all of you out there, about the united states healthcare system and what it'll do for you, when you need help.

At very least I can say this. my gums are healthy as can be. Ever since removing infection and continued oral care, any sign of gum disease is long gone. I have no pain. Don't need antibiotics. I am a little concerned about sinuses, so I guess what money I have left, that isn't going to dental treatment anymore, can go toward seeing an ENT to deal with that. Although they'll probably screw me over too. Especially since despite having dental insurance the last 2+ years that barely covers anything, I still have no health insurance because I couldn't justify like 800 a month for mediocre insurance with tons of limitations and high deductibles, because I still reside in that tax bracket of too much (but not enough) for decent affordable insurance (go figure). Oh, and guess when my appointment with ENT is? October 14th. Getting my sinus issue dealt with was time sensitive, said the dentist who failed to tell me about it months ago, and now i'm on a wait list. So that's what is next for me.

All the status updates in this thread have been about keeping you all informed of my progress through this, since original post. I had hoped this status update would be a better one, since we've all been on this journey together and I feel guilty that I haven't got more to show for it all. I'm full of so many second guesses. If I just had done more research before picking dentists. If I had expanded my scope and traveled further, etc etc. Alas, what's done is done.

Now, here is the great news in all this. DBM PVP mods returned and are better than ever. Classic support is going fantastically well. Retail mods still going good. Even some long standing bugs like drop down menus not having scroll bars are finally fixed. DBM is stronger than ever!

SUPER TL/DR of really long post:
  • I spent years not being able to afford proper health and dental care do to a system that is driven by greedy profit, so my teeth went to crap, contributed to highly by sinus issues I also never got looked at.
  • I hit a stress boiling point last year and went on a rant about it and my work stress in general when I was doing too much for one person. To my great surprise, a rant I expected almost no one to see, caused you all rise up to help me
  • Sadly, despite even your help, after 11 months of trying to do everything right, the united states healthcare system of greed and corruption won out and defeated me. I ended my immediate health risks and pain (the most important thing), but my happy ending was yanked away from me. All because of the healthcare system lacking: humanity, integrity, and affordability.
  • DBM is still doing great. PVP mods even returned! Classic support is going fantastically.
  • The results of final CT, and estimate given for lower implants can be viewed here by any dental professional wanting to give their advice: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xn0dofvb6pe6 ... 9nb_a?dl=0